I was excited to discover the Alcan breed after months searching for a Intracoastal Waterway (SE USA) worthy houseboat. It looks perfect - hull shape, aluminum material, strength of construction. I am in negotiations now to purchase a 1969 Alcan and truck it to the SE where it will be my Monday thru Thrusday liveaboard. I am prepared to repower it and give it the TLC it needs.
All that said, here are my questions:
1) Are there any special concerns with the Alcan bringing it to a salt water environment? The aluminum tolerates the salt?
2) How good is the thermal insulation design in the cabin? Neighbors North of the border have cold to contend with - we have heat!
3) 1- 3 foot swells I asume are easily managable with this shape of hull. What are your stories of the "Worst Seas"?
4) Any weaknesses in the Alcan design to be prepared for?
Thanks for any feed back!
I think I'm in Love
Re: I think I'm in Love
Welcome to the world of Alcan Boats !
Answers to your questions . . .
1) The aluminum alloy used in the hull is compatible with salt water. There are Alcans on the Canadian west coat that have been in salt water for 40 years. Just make sure that you stay away from copper based antifouling paint and watch out for stray current corrosion through your shore power connection. (You can quickly become the anode for the whole harbour when other boats have electrical problems)
2) Thermal insulation . . . there is originally none. For some reason this was not considered important 40 years ago. (Wish this were different for both hot and cold) A one ton AC unit (12000 BTU) will NOT keep up with thermal load at 90F . . . mostly because of the big single pane windows. You need to get the boat into the shade (covered slip) for the AC to keep up.
3) You will hardly notice 3 ft swells, unless they are on the beam. Up to 6 ft is manageable if you can keep them on the forward quarter . . . essentially "tack" into a sea. Straight on the bow is safe, but tough on the windshields and keeps popping the outdrives out of the water . . . been there / done that
.
4) Alcans keep going and going . . . haven't seen a failed one yet. The (non-aluminum) superstructure on the Alwest version is probably the only "special situation" to be aware of.
Rob
Answers to your questions . . .
1) The aluminum alloy used in the hull is compatible with salt water. There are Alcans on the Canadian west coat that have been in salt water for 40 years. Just make sure that you stay away from copper based antifouling paint and watch out for stray current corrosion through your shore power connection. (You can quickly become the anode for the whole harbour when other boats have electrical problems)
2) Thermal insulation . . . there is originally none. For some reason this was not considered important 40 years ago. (Wish this were different for both hot and cold) A one ton AC unit (12000 BTU) will NOT keep up with thermal load at 90F . . . mostly because of the big single pane windows. You need to get the boat into the shade (covered slip) for the AC to keep up.
3) You will hardly notice 3 ft swells, unless they are on the beam. Up to 6 ft is manageable if you can keep them on the forward quarter . . . essentially "tack" into a sea. Straight on the bow is safe, but tough on the windshields and keeps popping the outdrives out of the water . . . been there / done that
.4) Alcans keep going and going . . . haven't seen a failed one yet. The (non-aluminum) superstructure on the Alwest version is probably the only "special situation" to be aware of.
Rob
Re: I think I'm in Love
Thanks for the info Rob. Its invaluable to have a users input .
Interesting to hear about the thermal insulation. Unfortunately I wil not have the opportunity to be in the shade so will need to insulate the boat. Some thougths:
1) From the original owners manual: "Fiberglass insulation in the deckhouse walls and ceilings allows the boat to be
operated from early spring to late fall, thereby extending your boating season." I am understanding this insulation is inadequate based on your experience. Perhaps the place to start is window tinting and a reflective coating on the roof.
2) I also noticed the boats have factory applied polyurethene foam. Are there issues with this foam as it ages/ gets exposed teh moisture?
3) It so happens I have a friend who owns a glass business - Have you ever heard of anyone replacing the original glass windows with insulating double pane? I'm not sure if its possible to mount the thicker double pane (impact resistant and tempered of course) in the existing frames?
Interesting to hear about the thermal insulation. Unfortunately I wil not have the opportunity to be in the shade so will need to insulate the boat. Some thougths:
1) From the original owners manual: "Fiberglass insulation in the deckhouse walls and ceilings allows the boat to be
operated from early spring to late fall, thereby extending your boating season." I am understanding this insulation is inadequate based on your experience. Perhaps the place to start is window tinting and a reflective coating on the roof.
2) I also noticed the boats have factory applied polyurethene foam. Are there issues with this foam as it ages/ gets exposed teh moisture?
3) It so happens I have a friend who owns a glass business - Have you ever heard of anyone replacing the original glass windows with insulating double pane? I'm not sure if its possible to mount the thicker double pane (impact resistant and tempered of course) in the existing frames?
Re: I think I'm in Love
I had one other inquiry on repowering the Alcan 37
1) My intent would be to remove the orignal motors and outdrives and mount two outboard motors on aluminum brackets that I attach to the transom. My plan would be to weld the orignal outdrive holes shut with aluminum plate and then either bolt or weld brackets to the exterior transom. On the inside I suspect I will need to add gussetts between the transom and the bottom stingers to reinforce the transom for the thrust load and weight of the motors. Does anyone have experience/ stories to tell repowering with outboards?
1) My intent would be to remove the orignal motors and outdrives and mount two outboard motors on aluminum brackets that I attach to the transom. My plan would be to weld the orignal outdrive holes shut with aluminum plate and then either bolt or weld brackets to the exterior transom. On the inside I suspect I will need to add gussetts between the transom and the bottom stingers to reinforce the transom for the thrust load and weight of the motors. Does anyone have experience/ stories to tell repowering with outboards?
Re: I think I'm in Love
The concept of repowering with outboards has come up in discussion, but I am not aware of any boats that have actually gone that way. It should be quite practical to do. One thing to be cautious of is that the transom is relatively thin aluminum and relied on a thick piece of wood for stiffening around the stern-drive. Your idea of transfering the thrust load to the stringers is a good one. You might consider bracing the top of the mounting bracket to the stringers that are mid-way up the hull wall. In case you have not spotted them yet, we have a full set of blueprints on the web site http://www.alcanboats.com/blueprints.htm which could be useful when designing the engine mount.
I also have a comment on the polyurethane foam. There is generally no problem with it absorbing water unless it is submerged for an extended period. We discovered a section near the bow where the foam below the water line was completely water-logged thanks to a small leak.
I also have a comment on the polyurethane foam. There is generally no problem with it absorbing water unless it is submerged for an extended period. We discovered a section near the bow where the foam below the water line was completely water-logged thanks to a small leak.
Re: I think I'm in Love
Interesting reference to insulation in the deckhouse walls . . . certainly the Alwests do not have this and I have only seen inside the walls of one Alcan . . . and it did not have any either. It does seem like an obvious thing to put in this space.
The thick foam sprayed inside the hull seems to stand up reasonably well if it has not been chemically affected (ie something spilled into the bilge that would dissolve it)
Most of these boats have windows manufactured by a company called Beclawat. They are still in business and might have thoughts on better insulated glass. Getting the windows apart is not easy, but is possible.
I have heard of repowering Alcan hulls with outboards but I have never actually seen one of these conversions. Obviously attaching outboards to the transom would require some careful internal reinforcing. I would also be concerned about the fore/aft balance of the boat. These boats tend to be bow heavy to start with (particularly if you have a flybridge) so replacing the original engines and genset with lighter outboards would make this worse. Clearing out the engine room would give you a large storage area . . . for maybe a large battery bank ? water tank ? to re-balance the boat.
The thick foam sprayed inside the hull seems to stand up reasonably well if it has not been chemically affected (ie something spilled into the bilge that would dissolve it)
Most of these boats have windows manufactured by a company called Beclawat. They are still in business and might have thoughts on better insulated glass. Getting the windows apart is not easy, but is possible.
I have heard of repowering Alcan hulls with outboards but I have never actually seen one of these conversions. Obviously attaching outboards to the transom would require some careful internal reinforcing. I would also be concerned about the fore/aft balance of the boat. These boats tend to be bow heavy to start with (particularly if you have a flybridge) so replacing the original engines and genset with lighter outboards would make this worse. Clearing out the engine room would give you a large storage area . . . for maybe a large battery bank ? water tank ? to re-balance the boat.
Re: I think I'm in Love
So far so good on the Alcan aquisition - the wife is not quite on board, but she is on the dock acting interested...
Regarding the factory installed foam of the '69 Alcan 37:
- my worst nightmare is that i bring the boat to the SE USA and, and due to the heat, I start a petri dish experiment in an inaccessable location in foam underdeck.... Then odors erupt and I can't get to the heart of the problem without cutting the boat up..
So the question is can one get to the foam in the boat for maintenance if necessary? I saw another forum user post a related stroy of bildge odour and I want to get, hopfully soothing thoughts about the how to manage odours.
Respectfully...
Regarding the factory installed foam of the '69 Alcan 37:
- my worst nightmare is that i bring the boat to the SE USA and, and due to the heat, I start a petri dish experiment in an inaccessable location in foam underdeck.... Then odors erupt and I can't get to the heart of the problem without cutting the boat up..
So the question is can one get to the foam in the boat for maintenance if necessary? I saw another forum user post a related stroy of bildge odour and I want to get, hopfully soothing thoughts about the how to manage odours.
Respectfully...
Re: I think I'm in Love
The bilge of an Alcan can be kept completely dry. This is different than most boats.
As originally built, the showers on these boats drained into the bilge. You want to eliminate this by installing a shower sump which pumps shower water directly overboard. This is not a big modification.
If there is another souce of water entry into the bilge . . . solve it. A welded aluminum hull should have no water on the inside.
We even keep moisture absorbing pellet containers in our bilge to absorb humidity. There is no standing water.
As far a ventilation/managing odours . . . please see the Tech Section article on bilge ventilation.
http://www.alcanboats.com/bilge_ventilation.htm
Rob
As originally built, the showers on these boats drained into the bilge. You want to eliminate this by installing a shower sump which pumps shower water directly overboard. This is not a big modification.
If there is another souce of water entry into the bilge . . . solve it. A welded aluminum hull should have no water on the inside.
We even keep moisture absorbing pellet containers in our bilge to absorb humidity. There is no standing water.
As far a ventilation/managing odours . . . please see the Tech Section article on bilge ventilation.
http://www.alcanboats.com/bilge_ventilation.htm
Rob
Re: I think I'm in Love
Thanks again Rob - I'll sleep better now.
Neat application of a computer fan on the link you recommended.
We'll be in touch...
Neat application of a computer fan on the link you recommended.
We'll be in touch...
Re: I think I'm in Love
I will point you back to the blueprints for more information. There is a drawing entitled "Hull Foaming Arrangement" at http://www.alcanboats.com/BluePrints/Hu ... gement.JPG which shows you exactly where they intended to spray foam. It is not totally controlled, so there will be the odd bit of foam in other places, but it gives you an idea.
Being in the SE USA, you will definitely need to worry about unauthorized science experiments in your boat, especially in a 42 year old boat. However, if the boat has been stored outdoors, the Canadian Winter tends to kill off most of the criters.
I have accessed the foamed areas on my boat by cutting holes in the wall in hidden areas such as behind the galley drawers and such. You could spray some anti-microbial in and pre-empt the growth.
David
Being in the SE USA, you will definitely need to worry about unauthorized science experiments in your boat, especially in a 42 year old boat. However, if the boat has been stored outdoors, the Canadian Winter tends to kill off most of the criters.
I have accessed the foamed areas on my boat by cutting holes in the wall in hidden areas such as behind the galley drawers and such. You could spray some anti-microbial in and pre-empt the growth.
David
Re: I think I'm in Love
David,
Thanks for the feedback and the link - I will study the plans. I'm curious - you mentioned cutting some holes to gain access to areas - what material did you cut through? Wood paneling, or aluminum covers?
Walt
Thanks for the feedback and the link - I will study the plans. I'm curious - you mentioned cutting some holes to gain access to areas - what material did you cut through? Wood paneling, or aluminum covers?
Walt
Re: I think I'm in Love
Walt
Most of the access holes I have cut have been through the wood paneling. I wanted to access the wiring under the decks, so I cut through the panel in one of the dinette seats and also behind the drawers in the galley. I typically cut a rectangular hole and then use the cut-out as the patch. It does not look very good, so I picked spots that would not show. In other boats, I have used a hole cutter and installed a plastic inspection panel to close off the hole. This looks better, but they can be a little small at times if you are pulling wires or control cables.
David
Most of the access holes I have cut have been through the wood paneling. I wanted to access the wiring under the decks, so I cut through the panel in one of the dinette seats and also behind the drawers in the galley. I typically cut a rectangular hole and then use the cut-out as the patch. It does not look very good, so I picked spots that would not show. In other boats, I have used a hole cutter and installed a plastic inspection panel to close off the hole. This looks better, but they can be a little small at times if you are pulling wires or control cables.
David
Re: I think I'm in Love
Okay, "I think I'm in Love" has taken on new gravity. Going to the homeland (Ontario) to see the boat and perhaps consumate the deal two days from now. Here are my questions:
1) I've seen some issues with corrosion from within i.e. saturated foam - where can/ should I inspect for this? Or can I sound for it somehow? My primary concern is that the hull is sound. I'm not familiar with the acessibilty of the 1969 ALcan 37 so this has me on edge.
2) What are the problem areas to look at? Note that I know is a 40+ year old boat and it will need lots of work - Im just looking for some words of experence particular to the Alcan.
3) Are Americans allowed to own ALcans?
Cheers!
1) I've seen some issues with corrosion from within i.e. saturated foam - where can/ should I inspect for this? Or can I sound for it somehow? My primary concern is that the hull is sound. I'm not familiar with the acessibilty of the 1969 ALcan 37 so this has me on edge.
2) What are the problem areas to look at? Note that I know is a 40+ year old boat and it will need lots of work - Im just looking for some words of experence particular to the Alcan.
3) Are Americans allowed to own ALcans?
Cheers!
Re: I think I'm in Love
Wally
It sounds like you need a good marine surveyor to advise you on the corrosion issues. There have not been any reports of aluminum corroding under the foam, but that is not terribly scientific. The best anecdotal information I can offer is that the aluminum parts seem to last the longest. The engines, electronics and wood parts, all seem to go before the hull does.
With respect to question 3, as far as I know Americans are allowed to own Alcan's as long as they don't contain any Cuban cigars
Depending on when and where you are visiting in Ontario, I might be able to meet with you and go over the boat with you. I am not a surveyor, but I am pretty good at finding things out.
Cheers
David
It sounds like you need a good marine surveyor to advise you on the corrosion issues. There have not been any reports of aluminum corroding under the foam, but that is not terribly scientific. The best anecdotal information I can offer is that the aluminum parts seem to last the longest. The engines, electronics and wood parts, all seem to go before the hull does.
With respect to question 3, as far as I know Americans are allowed to own Alcan's as long as they don't contain any Cuban cigars
Depending on when and where you are visiting in Ontario, I might be able to meet with you and go over the boat with you. I am not a surveyor, but I am pretty good at finding things out.
Cheers
David
Re: I think I'm in Love
Wally,
Which Boat are you considering ?
Rob
Which Boat are you considering ?
Rob
Re: I think I'm in Love
Boat is 1969 Alcan 37 Paula Sue. I will be going to see it outside Ottawa Thrusday afternoon and Friday morning.
David, if you are available to meet Friday morning, I can give you details.
Thank you for the info gentlemen.
David, if you are available to meet Friday morning, I can give you details.
Thank you for the info gentlemen.
Re: I think I'm in Love
Wally
Timing is perfect. I am traveling Thursday, but available all day Friday. Give me a shout on cell at 613-292-7950. I will send you a PM with more contact information.
David
Timing is perfect. I am traveling Thursday, but available all day Friday. Give me a shout on cell at 613-292-7950. I will send you a PM with more contact information.
David
Re: I think I'm in Love
I can likely arrange to be in that area on Friday morning . . . if you want a 3rd opinion .
Rob
.Rob
Re: I think I'm in Love
David & Rob,
I just got off the phone with David and he's planning to meet me Friday morning for a look at the boat. Thanks David!
Rob, It would be great if you could join us. Please call me at (706) 339-0594 or send me your number and I'll fill you in.
The plan is to haul the boat out of the water Friday morning early & inspect.
Cheers Gentlemen!
Walt
I just got off the phone with David and he's planning to meet me Friday morning for a look at the boat. Thanks David!
Rob, It would be great if you could join us. Please call me at (706) 339-0594 or send me your number and I'll fill you in.
The plan is to haul the boat out of the water Friday morning early & inspect.
Cheers Gentlemen!
Walt
Re: I think I'm in Love
David and Rob,
I am the proud owner of an Alcan 37. Thank you for coming, reviewing, and sharing opinions about the boat with me - it helped me make the decision to purchase the boat. Next is the trip to my yard in SC for some TLC and next spring we will moor her in Charleston. I wish you the best in your endevours and thanks again.
We'll be in touch.....
I am the proud owner of an Alcan 37. Thank you for coming, reviewing, and sharing opinions about the boat with me - it helped me make the decision to purchase the boat. Next is the trip to my yard in SC for some TLC and next spring we will moor her in Charleston. I wish you the best in your endevours and thanks again.
We'll be in touch.....
Re: I think I'm in Love
Hi Wally,
Good to hear that you and the boat are home safe and sound.
Keep us updated on renovation progress !
Good looking trailer BTW.
Rob
Good to hear that you and the boat are home safe and sound.
Keep us updated on renovation progress !
Good looking trailer BTW.
Rob